Windows 10 BR! Server

[John]

Has anyone setup a windows 10 machine as a client/server server and not used the anonymous option? I'm trying to add local accounts but am not able to make them work. The primary administrator accounts seem to work fine. I know there is a concern with "allow logon locally" but I'm not able to find a policy manager nor "Domain Controller Security Policy" in any of the settings.

[Gabriel]

Its definitely the "Allow Logon Locally" policy that you're missing. We just have to figure out where they moved it and what they called it in Windows 10.

The best tip I can offer, is, its the same policy that is required for "Remote Desktop". When I'm working with Network Administrators, thats what I tell them -- you have to make it so that the end users have the right to connect to this computer using Remote Desktop" and once I've said that they usually figure it out right away.

So you might look up on google what policies a user needs to have to be able to connect to a Windows 10 machine via Remote Desktop.

The policy basically means "This person is able to run programs as if they were physically at this computer even if they are actually connecting remotely". So "allow logon locally" was a bad name for it before, and its not surprising that they changed it.

I have had success with new versions of windows by just typing in Remote Desktop and seeing what comes up. Sometimes an option comes up called "Set which users can Access Remote Desktop" though I haven't tried a Windows 10 server yet.

Gabriel

[John]

I found this

"Enable Remote Desktop for Windows 10 Pro
The RDP feature is disabled by default, and to turn the remote feature on, type: remote settings into the Cortana search box and select Allow remote access to your computer from the results at the top." from https://www.groovypost.com/howto/setup- ... indows-10/, but it was already turned on and didn't seem to make a difference.

The machine I was using was Windows 10 Home, but I'm dropping this question as I'm switching to a godaddy virtual windows 2012 server. Self-managed it is 240/year and should work much better for the job. I'll know soon enough...

[Gabriel]

That is the setting to turn on Remote Desktop for the Computer.

You have to then go a step farther and find the permission for Windows 10 where you tell it WHICH USERS can access remote desktop.

I'm adding the emphasis because I think you skipped over those words in my initial suggestion and I want to make sure you don't miss them the second time around.

Gabriel

[Gabriel]

I read through the link you provided.

Look at the screenshot where you turned on RDP in Windows 10. At the bottom of that window is a little button marked "Select Users". That is the button you want to use to give users the "Allow Logon Locally" policy, whatever its called in Windows 10.

(The guide you linked to ignores it and doesn't mention it because they are using the admin account to test with, and as you can see the Admin account already has that permission and works fine for you .. your question was about getting OTHER users the ability to connect).

Gabriel

[Gabriel]

https://www.groovypost.com/wp-content/u ... ctions.png

This screenshot, from the article you linked too, click the "Select Users" button at the bottom of it.

Gabriel

[John]

that must be a windows 10 pro feature - windows 10 home does not have that bottom frame - only the top one.

[Gabriel]

Oh. In that case, its possible that Windows 10 doesn't have the option. But I'm trying to find it now. I have Windows 10 on this computer.

EDIT: Geez, I can't even find where you manage User Groups in Windows 10.. (Another way I'd gotten it working is, there is often a "Remote Desktop Users" group that you can put the user in, instead of making them an Administrator.

I wonder if Windows 10 is missing all the security stuff you need for RDP of other users then the Administrator user ...

Gabriel

[Gabriel]

https://ctrl.blog/entry/how-to-rdpwrapper-win10-home

This seems to cover the relevant bits.

Appearently Windows 10 Home edition has both the detailed User Security required for RDP, as well as RDP itself disabled, and furthermore, attempting to use it anyway violates the Windows 10 Home edition license agreement. On the other hand, this link also explains how to attempt to bypass that and enable RDP on Windows 10 Home.

You mentioned that RDP was already enabled on your Windows 10 Home PC. I wasn't able to even pull up the Remote Settings window when I looked for it. I wonder if some form of these steps were already done on your computer.




At any rate, if you're using this to test it before you set up your proper server, that should be completely within your rights as a Windows User. And as long as you make sure your BR data folders and program folders are accessible to all end users in Windows Security, there's nothing else that should surprise you when you switch to the permanent environment. So feel free to fully test your software using the Administrator account that you have now. Use that for your test server, and when you get it onto either Windows 7 or one of the Windows SBS servers, you can set up the actual users with little worry that they'll run into trouble.

[GomezL]

I don't know if this will help, but from Windows 10 run
* Secpol.msc

This will load the local security policy.

Local Policies --> User Right Assignment --> Allow log on Locally

I think the bad news is that on my system, Administrators, Users & Guest are on the list.

On the other hand, if you are running Windows 10 Home, then Security is clearly not a concern, so just make everyone an administrator and it will probably work.

My general suggestion, upgrade the Windows "Home Edition" to WIndows "Pro"

I also read that you are looking for a virtual hosted solution.

I think this is the landing page for Amazon:
https://aws.amazon.com/

You can actually get a "Small Server" for Free (For one year):
* https://aws.amazon.com/free/

I canceled my server May 2016, but my last bill was for $15.92

Amazon Elastic Compute Cloud running Windows
$0.020 per On Demand Windows t1.micro Instance Hour - 720 Hrs$14.40
EBS
$0.05 per 1 million I/O requests - US East (Northern Virginia) 461,423 IOs $0.02
$0.05 per GB-month of Magnetic provisioned storage - US East (Northern Virginia) 30.000 GB-Mo $1.50

I believe I had 1GB of memory on the server, and was running IIS & SQL Server.

The first free year was nice. With Go-Daddy, make sure it's not an "Introductory Price", the above Amazon prices where "After the Free year".

[bluesfannoz]

What Luis suggested is correct. Just enabling RDP does not fix this issue. Enabling the user to logon locally in Local Security Policy is what is required for a user to connect via client server. I think where the RDP confusion happened was that I think in earlier versions of windows if you enabled a user in RDP that it also enabled them to logon locally. I do not believe that has been the case since Windows 2008 Server.

[bluesfannoz]

The fastest way to get to the Local Security Policy Editor is to click on the Cortana Search button and start typing Local Security and it should find it and you can select it to run.

[John]

On my Windows 10 (Home) machine the secpol.msc and Local Security Settings were a dead end. (Though they do work on my Win 10 Pro machine)

I've switched over to using a goDaddy virtual machine with windows server 2012. I've got 30 days in which to try it out and I can get like a 2/3rd refund if I don't like it. It's like $240/year - much more expensive then the amazon services Luis mentioned - so I may check those out soon as well. Good thing is - if it all works than I this will be my real server and not just a test system.

Of course I still have some concerns. I hear that any username and password I make for clients to access the machine will also grant them access to RDP. Which is a pretty brutal security concern. And that it may take a tenth of a second to draw a space on the screen, which would mean it would be unusably slow. So - I'll be checking into those things along the way too.

Thanks for all the great advice!!!

[bluesfannoz]

Aw good to know. Have not run into any Windows 10 Home machines. Does not surprise me that Microsoft would restrict that.

[Gabriel]

On my Windows 10 (Home) machine the secpol.msc and Local Security Settings were a dead end. (Though they do work on my Win 10 Pro machine)

I've switched over to using a goDaddy virtual machine with windows server 2012. I've got 30 days in which to try it out and I can get like a 2/3rd refund if I don't like it. It's like $240/year - much more expensive then the amazon services Luis mentioned - so I may check those out soon as well. Good thing is - if it all works than I this will be my real server and not just a test system.

Of course I still have some concerns. I hear that any username and password I make for clients to access the machine will also grant them access to RDP. Which is a pretty brutal security concern. And that it may take a tenth of a second to draw a space on the screen, which would mean it would be unusably slow. So - I'll be checking into those things along the way too.

Thanks for all the great advice!!!

John, you're referring to things I said but you didn't read them carefully and you're misrepresenting them!

First of all, what I said regarding RDP is that Users Need the SAME Security Permissions that they would need to connect to RDP. I've said it like 5 times now in 5 different ways and every time I say it it seems like you misinterpret it and jump to some conclusion. You've tried looking at RDP itself, you've tried looking at Remote Access (which has nothing to do with RDP), and now you're equating the permissions with the users ACTUALLY being able to connect to RDP.

So here it is one more time, as simple as I can figure out how to state it. Client Server requires Users to have the same Security Permissions as RDP. There are many other ways to stop the users from actually connecting to RDP. But in order to get to Client Server they need the main "Access RDP on this computer" (sometimes called "Allow Logon Locally") permission.


Now, regarding the speed:

It takes a 10th of a second for ANY RINPUT FIELDS statement no matter how much text you're sending, when running Client Server over a slow internet connection. You can paint the entire screen in that 1/10th of a second, or you can paint a single character, thats up to you and how you write your programs.

Using Client Server over the Internet is not officially supported by Gordon, but it works and it works well IMO. I have several clients who do it and are very happy with the solution. Its WAAAAAAYY faster then driving into the office just to check something, which is what they used to have to do.


What i do is, when they first connect to my software, I PRINT FIELDS a single space character and time it. If it takes longer then 1/20th of a second, then I assume they're running via Internet. If it is faster then 1/20th of a second, I assume they're running via LAN. Once I know they're running via Internet I funnel them to a faster version of their programs, that avoids any slow libraries, and does the user interfaces using a single RINPUT FIELDS statement, in order to give them the smoothest and fastest User Experience possible.

I haven't had anyone complain about remotely accessing it. Its by far the fastest option for them .. way faster then using Remote Control Software and hours faster then physically driving into the office. But it requires the programs to be somewhat effeciently written.


John, you've used SageLive a bunch -- and that is the slowest possible program you can write, and its still fast enough under Client Server over the Internet. It uses all kinds of libraries and does things in the slowest most roundabout way possible. All the Client Server software that I have written for my customers runs WAY faster then that. All old-skool BR programs run far faster then that, without any changes at all. So I don't think you need to worry about speed.


What would you tell me if I was one of your martial arts students? Quit looking for reasons it wont work and just do it already!

Gabriel